The Darker Side Of FullTime RVing? 5 Thoughts To Ponder Before Making The Leap..

Yesterday Wish Upon An RV Star wrote a rather thought-provoking post Days Of Wine And Roses? and it got me thinking, so much so that I just had to write about it. Now I fully admit I don’t typically write about the downsides of fulltime RVing. I’m a natural optimist (a state reached by life-long deliberate training) and prefer to handle the difficult passages in life with humor. My posts reflect that side of my nature and so they’re mostly positive…and mostly humorous. But I admit that some folks might read too much into it and think my life is one long-lived utopia. Given the ups and downs I’ve had over the years (including depression, eating disorders, personal challenges) and even the issues I’ve been through during our 3 RVing years I have to chuckle at that assessment, but sometimes…just sometimes…it helps to hear the darker bits (some say it makes us more human?). So, for those looking at this lifestyle for the first time here’s my short straight-forward take on the other side of fulltime RVing:

1/ Life Doesn’t Stop For Travel

You will manage to do stupid things even after you move into an RV

I’ve travelled my whole life, so maybe travelling is much more ingrained in me than others. I expect (and know) that life happens no matter where you are. You will endure unexpected heartache, make clumpsy & painful mistakes, break things by your own hand, have medical issues , lose things, get deflated and sit for days waiting for stuff to get fixed…and none of it will come “at the right time”. This is life and it doesn’t stop just ‘coz you move into an RV.  We’ve experienced ALL of these in our 3 years of RVing and expect to keep doing so. The important question is not what happens, but how you deal with those life challenges. That’s true in an RV, in an apartment or in a $50 million dollar home.

2/ RVs Are Not As Big As Apartments

Sometimes things are exactly the size they seem…

I know this may sound bleedin’ obvious, but I always find it endlessly funny how some people move into an RV and then seem surprised by how small it is. Yes, it’s small. Yes, your kitchen is minute and your refrigerator is about half what you had at home. Yes, your shower-stall is not the double walk-in rainfall you had before. Yes (I’m sorry to say) your sh*t likely still stinks (and as a bonus you get to carry it around in an RV!)…but honestly that’s to be expected. Paul and I lived in a teeeeny apartment with no living room windows in Hong Kong for 4 years before we decided to go RVing. In that time we learnt to live comfortably in a small space with very little natural light, a barbie-sized kitchen (we only had 2 burners and no oven), a child-size washer, iffy electricity and a refrigerator the size of a gnat. So moving into an RV was EASY! I have never felt the RV to be small. In fact I consider it very luxurious & spacious, especially compared to our HK days (which I thoroughly enjoyed, by the way). Sometimes I miss some of my “stuff” and Paul certainly misses his 400+ investment books, but this is part of the sacrifice we make to be mobile. If we were spending our time in city-squeezed RV parks I might feel differently, but given we choose to camp in natural environments with lots of trails and green around us that just adds to the space.

3/ You’re Not In A Fixed Place

“Toto, I’ve a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore….”

Part of moving into an RV is embracing the mobile lifestyle. That means you no longer live around the corner from your favorite joint and actually need to think about where to go, eat, shop and stay. It’s actually one of the things I love about RVing, but you risk fizzling out and collaping if you go at it too hard. We made the mistake, as many new RVers do, of racing around waaay too much in our first year. Not only that but we managed to hit the midwest in August (how dumb are we?) and were practically eaten alive by both mosquitoes, fleas and ticks (believe it or not we even contracted Lyme Disease)….oh, it wasn’t pretty it was not. But we managed to see the beauty despite the beast, learned from our idiocies and have slowed down, spent more time getting to know the “local” scene and followed much better weather ever since. We’re still going to hit periods of weather that suck, and will still end up doing some drives we don’t enjoy, but now we know how to chose our pace & our place so that the experience is enjoyable. Our “improved” approach made RVing 100 times better, and I can see us slowing down and being even more picky about our spots in the years to come.

4/ Budget & Money Still Matters

You still gotta think about the green stuff…

No mater how much you might wish it you are never going to get away from needing the green stuff. Money matters…from the day you’re born ’till the day you meet the never-after. We make our income 100% from investing and have done so for the past 3 years. This means we have a non-steady income stream, which is true for many “younger” RVers. We’ve also had unexpected expenses come up (a particularly large and personal one earlier this year) which put an extra painful wrench in the socket. What this means is that we have to watch our budget and adjust accordingly -> no differently from what I would do if we lived in a fixed home. This year we cut down massively on travel (= less gas), ligthhouse hosted for 2 months (= free camping) and are planning on boondocking much of winter. Would you call that sacrificing? Maybe…but I love the fact that RVing allows you that exact kind of flexibility. You can drive less, workamp, chose cheaper camping options…I’ve never had a lifestyle that was so adaptable (money-wise) and sure appreciate the freedom of it.

5/ You WILL Be Close To Your Partner

Sometimes it’s best just to tell him to go out and play with the dog…

The sheer size of an RV means that if you didn’t know your other half before starting this endeavor, you bet-your-behind-you-will now. Paul and I were together (and by together I mean we commuted together, worked in the same job in the same company in the same group in next-door cubicles and lived together!) for 14 years before we went RVing, so spending 24-hours a day in each others space was completely natural. Zero adjustment here, baby. But some people DO have a process to go through when they move into a tin-can rig and if they’re not prepared for this it could literally shatter their fulltime dreams. My advice is be mentally ready for this adjustment, develop separate hobbies, go on few separate sight-seeing trips and take solo-walks with the dog when you need a break. It may take some time, but if you’re open-minded about it, it’ll work out in the end.

So is fulltime RVing for everyone? Hell no! If you’re not adaptable, flexible, relaxed about travel & weather, love being around your other half, comfortable in a small space and have a decent sense of humor this lifestyle might well fail you. That’s not to say you can’t be all those things in a stix & brix house, but space and plans are even more likey to be “jello” in an RV, so you gotta be prepared for the unexpected. And the positives? Freedom, adventure and memories to last a lifetime. For me, those three little things totally outdo the negatives. For you? Well, you’ll have to make that decision for yourself.

P.S. For those itching to read more my old “10 Things I Wish I’d Known Before Fulltime RVing” and Paul’s quite excellent ”Revisiting A Recipe For A Happy Retirement” post from yesterday meshes in quite nicely to this topic.

Is Boondocking Always Cheaper?

Beach boondocking at Sea Rim, TX

Boondocking is a word that frugal RVers love. The basic definition of boondocking (the way I use the word anyway) is camping for free or close to free ”in the boonies” on public land such as BLM and dispersed forest sites. It’s the best of the best -> open nature-acess, no neighbours (most of the time) and zip $$ out-of-pocket.  I mean, how much better does life get than that? Like most nature-lovers we love it and try to find spots to squeeze in the beast wherever we can.

Just for fun however, I wanted to explore the question from the side of pure cost. Now, you may think me mad to ask if there’s anything cheaper than free camping, but the truth of the matter is that boondocking has hidden costs for RVers and, from a purely financial standpoint, sometimes isn’t cheapest option even if you’ve got solar. Here’s some intellectual food for thought:

1/ Cost of Recharging Batteries – All the electric stuff in your RV runs off your house batteries so when you’re out in the boonies you need to find a way to recharge them. For most that involves running a generator and depending on how much electricity you use (and so how often you run the generator) that could mean a couple of hours everyday or every other day. Our generator uses ~1 gallon/hr of fuel at full load so that can add up to ~$8/day at current diesel prices. We have solar now and don’t need to worry about this anymore, but for most that will be a factor.

She's laughing 'coz she doesn't need to pay...lucky dog...

2/ Cost of Temperature Variations - We have pets and so we have to be sensitive to temperature changes in the RV. We simply can’t let internal temps fly too high, and if we’re in an area that requires air-conditioning then even our solar can’t keep up. Running aircon for 3-4 hours/day adds another $12-16/day of generator costs. When it’s really hot, getting an electric hookup can make a lot of financial sense.

3/ Costs of Dumping/Water - As the old saying goes, what goes in has (eventually) gotta come out. Most RVers will need to empty their tanks weekly or every other week depending on tank size and if you’re in the boonies you’ll need to find a spot to do it. Some places allow free dumping, but many will charge a nominal fee (typically anywhere from $5 to $15). Not a biggie this one, but it does add to the costs.

4/ Cost of Travel - The best part of getting “out there” is getting out there, but it does mean you might be far away from sightseeing, groceries and other errands. The cost of fuel to/from things you want to do can add up. Having a small, separate vehicle (toad/truck) helps to cut driving costs, but sometimes staying closer to “stuff” can make more financial sense.

5/ Cost of Boondocking – Camping in dispersed (non-developed) sites on public land is very often free, but not always. Quartzite, a popular winter boondocking spot charges a seasonal long-term fee of $180. If camping in a “developed” public campground, even without hookups, there is usually some kind of daily fee.

All these costs mean you might be paying up to ~$18/day for boondocking, depending on conditions. How does that compare to the alternative?

1/ Savings On Developed Camping – Costs in developed campgrounds can sometimes  be very attractive, depending on where you’re willing to go.

It's hard to beat the deals in New Mexico State Parks

• State Deals – Our New Mexico State Pass is a deal at $225/year. So far we’ve used the pass for 30 days of camping and even if you add-on the extra fee for electric hookup ($4/day) that works out to ~$11/day in camping fees. Pretty darn competitive.
• Monthly Deals - Many private campgrounds offer a monthly deal and sometimes they can be very attractive. Out in Alabama we could’ve camped with full hook-ups by the beach for $355/month (~$12/day). We just passed a spot here in Taos that offered full hook-up for $275/month (~$9/day). Purely based on price, it’s hard to beat.
• Camping Passes – Passport America is (in my opinion) the best camping club out there offering up to 50% off at member campgrounds, depending on timeframe and season. You might need to be flexible to get the full discount offer, but with some planning you can get a full hook-up site for ~$15/night.
• Senior Discounts - When you reach the “golden years” you start getting a lot of juicy discounts. America the Beautiful can get you 50% off camping fees in National Parks and federal lands (BLM, forest). Some State Parks and even some private parks offer senior discounts too.

2/ Savings on Laundry – We happen to have a washer/dryer in the RV and, believe it or not, it can actually make sense for us to pay for full hookup when we need to do laundry. A typical load in a laundromat will cost ~$3-$4. Got 3-4 loads and you’re getting close to the cost of a discount site.

There’s no doubt boondocking is fabulous and the best way to get “out there” in nature. In temperate climates with solar panels and a fully stocked liquor cabinet nothing can beat it. But if you’re just starting out or camping in extreme temps there are other options that may be cheaper. Something to discuss over your evening glass, in any case

The Costs of Full-Time RVing

The RV lifestyle -> as rich or modest as you want it to be

One of the most common questions asked by people looking to full-time RV is “how much does it take?”. Since we’ve been on the road for over a year now, we have a good 10 months experience on this since we did our last post on budget in April 2010. Back then our view was “whatever you have” and honestly our view hasn’t changed much. There are people who full-time on $1K/mo and those who full-time on $5K/mo and then there are those who work along the way, either volunteering at campgrounds or picking up workamping jobs to close the gap.

Since we live off our investments we have to be flexible in how we spend our money and the beauty of full-timing is that you can be exactly that.  The key is to manage your variable costs to whatever you have available, and as long as you’re willing to do that, the sky’s the limit. The biggest portion of our variable budget is camping fees, gas, groceries and miscellaneous buys and managing those costs gives us the ability to stay flexible on the road. Here’s how I look at our budget on a monthly basis:

FIXED COSTS:

	Monthly
RV Payment (1)	$ -
Health Care (2)	$ 200.00
Internet/phone (3)	$ 150.00
RV/Car insurance (4)	$ 115.00
RV/Car registration/tags (5)	$ 35.00
RV/Car maintenance/repair (6)	$ 150.00
Mail Service (7)	$   25.00
Pets (8)	$ 200.00
Storage (9)	$ 110.00
TOTAL	$ 985.00

Notes:

1. We do not have any RV payment. For some this might be a monthly cost.
2. Health Care includes our monthly high-deductable insurance premiums ($150/mo), plus $50/mo for extra expenses (yearly check-ups etc.).
3. For Internet/Phone we use Verizon 5GB/mo broadband plan plus  we have a Verizon smartphone with unlimited dataplan.
4. We use Geico for RV/Car Insurance. Costs include Good Sam’s Emergency Roadside Assistance, Good Sam’s Extended Warrenty Service.
5. Registration costs reflect rates in South Dakota. In SD Motorhome costs depend on weight and age (Click here).
6. Costs include regular yearly car and motorhome maintenance as well as money set-aside for repairs and major service items in the future.
7. For Mail Service we use Alternative Resources in South Dakota. Costs include our yearly membership, plus mail forwarding fees.
8. Pet costs include food for all 3 pets as well as yearly vet visits & money set aside for emergency funds. For some people this cost would be zero.
9. We keep a small storage in San Diego for our stuff from our old home. For some people this cost would be zero.

VARIABLE COSTS:

	Budget/mo	Extended/mo
Gas	$ 100.00	$   350.00
Camping	$        -	$   600.00
Groceries	$ 300.00	$   500.00
Propane	$   20.00	$     40.00
Entertainment	$        -	$   200.00
TV	$        -	$     60.00
Gifts/Charity	$   10.00	$     50.00
Clothing/Books/Misc.	$   20.00	$   200.00
TOTAL	$ 450.00	$2,000.00

I’ve just used a range of very general numbers here, but it’s easy to see that the variable costs are KEY to overall budget.

Camping Fees: If you boondock or volunteer your camping costs can be zero or very close to it. There are people who boondock year-round and only pay small monthly fees to dump, and there are lots of people who enjoy workamping at campgrounds, State Parks, National Forest, Wildlife Refuges and other areas which provide a free campsite. On the other hand those looking to splurge might pay upwards of $1,500/mo in camping fees for fancy “resort-style” campgrounds.

Gas Costs are entirely dependent on how much you travel.  As an example our Motorhome uses ~10 miles/gallon. Current gas prices are $3.50/gallon, so for $100 we can travel ~285 miles and for $350 we can travel 1000 miles. In active “travelling” mode last year we averaged ~$350/mo for both motorhome and car combined. In winter we did a lot less than that.

Grocery costs on the road are likely to be very similar to what you use at home. There are ways to save by smart-shopping and using farmers markets. We like our food and continue to like it on the road so our budget on this is fairly liberal.

Propane: Propane use can vary a lot depending on how much cold-camping you do (and thus how much you use the furnace). Daily propane use for cooking and refrigerator (when not hooked-up) is fairly modest. We plan our RVing around warmer climates and only filled-up our 40-gallon tank twice last year.

Other Costs are very personal and variable. Some are very similar to what you currently spend at home and some will change. We currently have satellite TV, but are planning to get rid of it when our contract expires (we just don’t use it enough). For clothing we only used $8/mo last year, and our personal entertainment costs are close to zero as we eat in the RV most of the time (we love to home-cook). Depending on your interests and habits you might have other costs in this category that we don’t have.

There are a lot of other good sites that list example costs and budgets:

• RV Dreams – Example budgets
• Kirk & Pam – 5 Years of full-time living expenses
• Technomadia – Cost of living 
• Road Less Travelled – Example budget
• RV.net Forum – Thread with downloadable spreadsheet

And for those looking to live off their investments, hubby has an excellent set of posts explaining the concept of Safe Withdrawal Rates for retirement portfolios and how to implement them:

• How much does it take to retire?
• How to implement 4% safe withdrawal rate
• Living a better retirement: withdrawal rates higher than 4%
• Higher retirement spending by staying flexible

The bottom line is that the costs of full-timing are accessible as long as you are willing to be flexible. We’ve seen people who full-time in pop-up campers or trailers that they bought for $10-$20K and volunteer the majority of their time, and then there are people who full-time in $500K rigs and splurge on resort-style camping and going out on a nightly basis. Where there’s a will there’s a way, and that certainly goes for RVing too.

Announcing -> Investing for a Living!

We’ve talked a lot about RVing, travel tales and such on this blog but not so much about how we actually make a living on the road. As a couple we’ve spent a lot of years saving up and preparing for our RVing dream, and we actively manage that money. Paul is the mastermind of all this thanks to a lot of years of investment experience, an insatiable appetite for investment books, a Masters of Finance and a lot of sharp tacks in the brain-box.  So, if you want to know how we’ve managed to grow our net worth over the past decade, despite negative S&P500 returns then this is the blog for you.

Investing is our major source of income on the road. We are conservative investors and our RV spending is based on our investment returns. The blog will cover what you need to retire, income investments and our specific strategies for how we manage our own money. He’s already got 5 posts ready, starting with “how much does it take to retire?” so jump in and enjoy! http://investingforaliving.wordpress.com/

How Much Does it Take?

A question we are often asked is ‘How much money does it take to live the full-time RV lifestyle?’ Or other not so direct questions trying to get to this point. Before we did this, we asked this question many a time as well. So, I thought I’d address it here on the blog.

During my research into living the RV lifestyle the most common answer I received to this question was ‘whatever you have’. Being an engineer and semi-paranoid about the future this was just not going to do. Thus my journey began. After month and months of on-line research, trolling many on-line RV forums, generating a thousand versions of spreadsheets and comparing them to Nina’s meticulously compiled actual expense spreadsheets, I can confidently say that I have the answer. Ready. The answer is….. ‘whatever you have!’

Now, before you send in some smart alec comments allow me to explain…

First, the hard numbers. A few surveys done over recent years by RV groups show that most full-time RVers live on $1,000 to $4,000 a month of income with the average being $2,500. These numbers do not include an RV payment or taxes but do include everything else. They assume the motorhome is owned outright. On the road you do see a large range of lifestyles from the 20ft mini tow trailers to the 45ft tag axle ‘tour buses’. $2,500 a month is $30,000 per year. Factor in the number of years you would  like to lead this lifestyle for and you have an approximate number for how much it takes. That’s the simplest calculation and is probably adequate if you’re only thinking of the lifestyle for a short period of time, say less than 5 years.

If you want to retire for good and live off your savings then the calculations are  bit different. The best rule of thumb for retirement planning (a topic I’ll address in future posts) is to not withdraw more than 4% of your savings in any given year. This will insure that your savings survive a long period of time (say 30 years) and keep pace with inflation. Using the $30,000 per year number means that you would need a nest egg of $750,000 ($30,000/ 0.04) to safely begin retirement. That’s a pretty big number. Fortunately, there are many other options. By the way, this analysis applies to whatever alternative ‘retirement’ lifestyle you may be considering. Full-time RVing is just one of many and an option that allows one to live with pretty modest means.

Here are a links to a few full-time RVers websites where they publish their monthly expenses:
1. RV Dreams
2. Happy Wanderers
3. Road Less Traveled

Now, for some alternatives to the straight retire-never-work-again approach. Well, the most obvious one is to do some work. You probably want to do something, even if its just part-time. One of the beauties of RVing is that there are many ways to make side income to support your adventure. One of the most popular ways is camp hosting. This is where you work at the campground you’re staying at in exchange for a free camp site with full hookups (elec, water, sewer). Usually this involves 20hrs/week of work (for a couple) at the campground doing various jobs like fee collection, light maintenance, light housekeeping, etc…Since the RV site fee (your rent) and fuel are two of the major expenses for full-time RVers this option can reduce monthly expenditures quite a bit, as much as $1,000/month. That sure makes a big difference – now we’re talking of needing $18,000 per year, down from the $30,000 original estimate.

Finally, there are many full-time RVers who make enough income to cover their lifestyle expenses 100%. Obviously, this involves more work but again there are tons of options out there. I’m constantly amazed at how people make their living on the road and at how many ways there are to do it. There is even an organization that caters to this segment, called Workamper (or Work Camping). For example, recently I saw a job opening for full-time RVers to tag along with a traveling circus and help out teaching/tutoring kids of the performers. Check out some of the cool jobs offered at Workamper under the sample jobs section. Nina is planning a working on the road post where she’ll tell you more…

As for the RV, there is also a huge range of options from the 20+yr old used motorhome (see pic below) for $11,000 to the luxury tour bus type motorhomes for $500K. The most economical options are the travel trailers, fifth wheels and used motorhomes. A very nice full-timing solution can be had for less than $50K.

So, in the end, the answer really is ‘whatever you have’. Like many things in life its about adapting the lifestyle to your particular situation and desires. Hopefully this has given you a few more of the hard facts as to what is involved with full-time RVing.

Anyone enticed??

$11K for your new home!!